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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:50 pm


by DEEGEE » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:52 pm

Hi all im new to the forum but have 20 yrs electrical installation experience.

Here is the scenario:

A friend of mine recently had a refurb of a bungalow that has had a Full rewire, by an alarm engineer. i know the fella who did the

rewire and advised him to get the consumer unit installed bfore 17th came in effect and provide porotection using a split load CU.

He didnt take my advice although building control oversaw building works they kept away from the elec install.
now i have been asked to check the installation and have been given half completed detailks of the installation, also bathroom lights are

the only circuit protected by rcd?

So ive advised that all socket outlets due to being a bungalow ground floor be protected by an rcd or rccbo's.

Building control state that rcds are not required can i have advice pls as a porper job is in order and its contradicting.

regards dal.


by ericmark » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:03 am

The LABC seems to have their own rule book and they can issue a completion certificate on any work they like irrespective of whether it complies with BS7671 or not. However you can’t issue the installation certificate only the LABC who would have been responsible for site safety can issue that and under their rules they will not issue in other words Part P breaks the rules of BS7671.
You can however issue a periodic inspection report assuming you hold some qualification so show you are skilled and when issuing an inspection report you work on the version of BS7671 in force so everything tested to BS7671:2008 where anything would have passed under BS7671:2001 (Not 16th Edition as that would include BS7671:1992) and fails under BS7671:2008 you can award a Code 4 so now anything which would have passed under BS7671:1992 but fails under BS7671:2001 would be given Code 1 or 2.
The line between Code 1 and 2 is hard to draw but most people would consider a Code 1 as where they would want to turn off supply until fixed although the difference between “Dangerous” and “Potential Dangerous” is disused in another post.
I would class missing RCD protection on a TT system as Code 1 and on a TN system as Code 2 but there is no hard and fast rule.
So returning to your question any socket outlet without a RCD protection likely to be used outside on a TN system I would give a Code 2. Any socket outlet not likely to be used outside without a RCD and not designated for use with a particular appliance would get a Code 4 the same would apply to any wires buried in a wall without protection except for any work started after 30 June which would then get a Code 2 as it has never been under the BS7671:2001 regulations.
If giving an example I want to add a spur on an existing ring main I must first install as RCD FCU at the side of original socket and then wire from that or use Ali-tube cable and use RCD sockets otherwise the new bit will be Code 2 although the old bit is only Code 4.
The problem is that Code 2 is often considered as a pass and only Code 1 as a fail but as the person doing the PIR that is really not your concern it is up to LABC to read your report and decide if they will issue a completion certificate after reading it they can’t really ask you to change your report they can at their expense either do their own or employ someone to do it for them but no respectable firm is likely to give a clean bill of health anyway and the home owner is duty bound to give anyone else doing a PIR a copy of your report and it is harder to give good reasons to change most people would just agree with previous report and note correcting not made after previous report.
I would love to see a LABC taken to court for deliration of duty as being responsible is being responsible and at the end of the day they have got it wrong. Not the alarm engineer or the house holder but I will guess they will not be taken to task unless at a later date someone is injured and they will issue the completion certificate even though you have reported non compliance to the regulations. They seem to be a law unto themselves.
But it is your signature on the form I would not sign any form which I did not think was a true representation of what was found as the same goes for you. If you sign a PIR showing no faults although a RCD is missing and at a later date someone is injured then I hope you have some good insurance.
This is a personal opinion of course.

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