new boiler but still havings problems... Information, help and advice on many gas related subjects from gas fires to domestic appliances

[dawny]

hi
i posted a while back about problems we were having with our ancient Baxi back boiler and eventually we decided to get the dratted thing replaced. we now have a nice Vailant 837 ecoTEC plus but unfortunately it has not stayed trouble-free for very long.

after four weeks, we woke-up to a freezing cold house, only to discover that the boiler was displaying the error message 'dry fire'. one quick call to our Corgi guy later and a bit of fiddling with the water/pressure tweakers (sorry to be technical) later and it was fine again. however, we soon discovered a leak on one of our downstairs rads and noticed that the pressure had gone down again. Corgi guy came out, fixed the rad and went off. that was about three weeks ago and to cut a long story short (although i fear it may be too late by now), the water pressure to the boiler just keeps going down and down. we have had to top-up the water levels three times in the last three weeks.

the obvious explanation to me is that there is a leak on at least one more of the rads. there is a slight damp smell in the spare room (although the rad temp seems fine) and at the top of the stairs (this radiator doesn't seem to get hot right to the top). hubby rang Corgi guy and he has promised to come and see us when he is next in the area.

all very well, but i am a bit cheesed off. before the boiler was fitted, i asked Corgi guy about fitting valves to our rads as i had heard this was necessary due to the increase in water pressure to the rads but he said we didn't need them. everyone i know has said they had these fitted when their condenser boilers were fitted and they have had no probs. are we just victims of bad luck or should this guy have fitted them when he did our install? are these leaks/pressure probs a normal settling in thing or could this have been avoided? the last thing we need is a big repair bill to fix these leaks when we have just spent £2000 on gas installs only three months ago.

sorry for the long post :oops: but can anyone give me some advice please?
thanks
dawny

[htg engineer]

Fitting a pressurised boiler to old pipework, fittings, valves and radiators - is asking for trouble.

You called the old back boiler ancient ? the radiators pipework and radiators are probably the same age (maybe older ??). Is the pipework in concrete floors at all ?

If the pressure drops constantly, you need to try and locate the leak. Check pipework, radiator valves etc etc. I would also advise - if you've had problems with one or more radiator valves leaking. I would get all radiator valves replaced.

The heating engineer is working for you, you asked if you needed the radiator valves replacing - he advised not. But if you wanted them replacing, you should have told him and he would have added this to the price of the installation.

[ALDA]

STEEP PRICE!!!

FOR THE INSTALLATION PRICE OF "£2,OOO" THE VALVE REPLACEMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED!!!

CLEARLY "THIS INSTALLER" DID NOT CHECK OUT YOUR SYSTEM BEFORE HE QUOTED FOR THE JOB.
BUT LOOKS LIKE PRICE OF JOB WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO COVER ALL EVENTUALITIES AND MORE!

WHERE IS THEIR SENSE OF RESPONSABILITY THESE DAYS???
THEY TAKE YOUR MONEY AND RUN!!!

COMPLAIN AGAIN, BUT BE PREPAIRED FOR ALONG WAIT AS THEY WILL BE TO BUSY "INSTALLING" MONEY IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS.

[htg engineer]

I wasn't trying to say it was your fault as you instructed the heating engineer what to do.

If I was to fit a pressurised boiler to old pipework - I would only do so if that's what the customer wanted - and I would advise strongly against it. And I would definately include new radiator valves in the price.

I totally agree with ALDA - it is steep and would have thought new radiator valves would have been included in the price.

And there are alot of so called heating engineers out there - that just want to install as that's where the money is and once they have the money, they're not interested in faults or repairs.

I personally prefer fault finding and repairing boilers - and that's mainly what I do.

[ALDA]

IS IT OR IS IT NOT THE RESPONSABILITY OF THE INSTALLER TO ENSURE THAT THE WHOLE HEATING SYSTEM IS WATER TIGHT DURING THE INSTALLATION AND COMMISSIONING OF THE BOILER.

IF THE INSTALLER SUSPECTS THAT THE OLD SYSTEM IS NOT GOING TO WITHSTAND THE PRESSURES ASSOCIATED WITH A NEW BOILER THEN THE INSTALLER SHOULD VOICE HIS CONCERNS TO THE CUSTOMER AND ADVISE ON THE MATTER.

I'M SURE ANY CUSTOMER WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY A FAIR PRICE
BASED ON THESE ASSUMPTIONS.

BUT TO BE RIPPED OFF IN BOTH MATTERS, PRICE AND WORKMANSHIP,
IS STAGGERING TO SAY THE LEAST.

THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ALL WALKS OF LIFE, CORGI REGISTERED OR NOT.

[rosebery]

and I'll bet he didn't flush the system first and add inhibitor after commissioning. Mind you flushing an old system will almost inevitably produce any number of leaks which he should have advised you about before starting work.

Is it not now a requirement to fit TRVs on rads after a boiler replacement? It seems he may have failed to do that as well.

You shouldn't get a repair bill from him to correct poor workmanship and advice and certainly not only 3 months after the event.

I would say that "when next in area" is unacceptable if you have a leaking system.

Did his bill include all the necessary materials including the boiler?

Did he give you a certificate for the installation?

If he is at fault and can't/won't sort it out then you have simple recourse to report him to CORGI. You do have his CORGI number of course?.

Cheers

[htg engineer]

CORGI wouldn't be interested. It's a water leak on a radiator not a gas leak.

If he is running a business - report him to trading standards - not much else you could do.

As for the TRV's, still not CORGI territory - that's just about energy efficiency. Building regulations, government guidelines to reduce emissions.

Has he been back to repair yet ?

[rosebery]

[quote="htg engineer"]CORGI wouldn't be interested. It's a water leak on a radiator not a gas leak."

But if he's done the install in a slapdash and unprofessional manner then surely they should be. If he's not done a flush first then he's probably invalidated the boiler guarantee by not doing the install correctly. CORGI list RGIs on their site who've had their registration withdrawn for such as "failing to rectify defects following a customer complaint".

"If he is running a business - report him to trading standards - not much else you could do."

Yes - absolutely.

"As for the TRV's, still not CORGI territory - that's just about energy efficiency. Building regulations, government guidelines to reduce emissions."

I know - but then I didn't say it was kennel club territory! I was asking a question actually. Am I right? - Part L doesn't specifically say so.

Cheers

[htg engineer]

Building regulations:

Minimum requirements for combi boilers:

A room thermostat

Thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on all radiators (except in the room with the room thermostat) on new systems.

When replacing a boiler, TRVs are required on at least the bedroom radiators and preferably on all (again with the exception of the room with the thermostat)

Timer / programmer

Minimum requirements for system and regular boilers
Requirements are the same as combi boilers with the follow exceptions:

Instead of a timer a 'full programmer' must be installed enabling the heating and hot water operations to be timed independently

The system must be fully pumped

[rosebery]

Thanks HE.

Cheers