is there work ? 4 Sparks Ask questions and find answers to many subjects relating to electrics and electrical work

[Jeffmo]

Hi Sparks , due to the new regulations with regards to Home buyers packages and Part P regulations do you think there is work for Domestic electricians starting up on their own , I get the feeling that proper sparks like yourself have a healthy distain for the likes of domestic installers of wwhich i will be . As i have mentioned before to you sparks all i am after is a healthy career that is going to earn me a descent living , i wish to do a good job by the book at a reasonable rate , surely if the government recognise the dopmestic installer schemes and even the leckie bodies then they can't be that bad . I know experience is everything in any trade , but surely we deserve a chance and maybe put some faith back into the public with regards to electricians.There must still b loads of cowboys out there as there is withj every trade . Hopefully because of legislation and newly trained ( partP ) people out there then things can only improve .Would welcome your advice and comments as always . Cheers Jeff

[sparx]

Hi agn Jeff.
I served my time doing mainly domestic work, & well remember on first day at tech, day release being asked who I worked for, as soon as I mentioned the co. name the response was " hu! house bashers!".
I must admit that having since worked in factory maintenance, instrumentation, computing (M.O.D.- RAF Nav. Weapon aiming System)
obtaining c&g 222A digital logic techniques, 14 years in Nuclear power stations as leckie/inst. foreman & a few other things in between my certs became out of date (14th edition regs). So back to tech. for 16th, not able to do simple update, had to site whole thing from start!
when I took early retirement/redundancy package 14 years ago the thought of going back to domestic work was not in my mind at all!...
I started up to do P.A.Testing as we had always done it in power station, but very cut throat game, and boring, so started doing commercial work agn, was lucky enough to get work for M.O.D. again as 'specialist sub contractor' doing fault finding on their training ranges equipment as
am Member of Institution of Diagnostic Engineers.
Did a few jobs for local plumbers / kitchen fitters etc, then along came Building regs Parts L,M,P, all of which as ECA member Co. we were made aware of very quickly; what to do? stop dom. work or register....
As already issuing test sheets etc. reg. no probs. just had to make sure all paper work in place.
now do 1/2 domestic work, 1/2 comm/ind. hate domestic, but it pays the bills,
Bet u wish u hadn't asked... best wishes for future I've never had a day out of work ,it's a very big 'field' to be in so start where u can..
regards SPARX

[Jeffmo]

Thanks for the quick reply , but now i am a bit torn between domestic and industrial work . Obviously my growing interest and initial interest was in domestic work and to be quite honest i don't know where to start with regards to qual's for industrial work , but there will be more work if i can be more versatile . After 2381 and 2391 does this give me the legallity to work on industrial side as well as doing the domestic installer course . Just as a matter of interest wat are you doing at the moment apart from putting us sorry souls to rights . I was also hoping to incorporate some security system training in along the line somewhere what would you suggest . Sorry for being such a pain , but i am determined to take up the electrical challenge and go it alone , i love it even down to just changing a socket . After doing 8 yrs in the Royal Air Force as an engine fitter , i need to get back to something that makes my brain work . Thanks again ,. ( ps if your still working and you need some free labour give me a shout i might take a week off and come and help you or should i say you can help me ) :lol: Cheers Jeff

[pdenni]

hello sparks


Just reading your experiance, i was hoping to pick your brains on some of the new legislations in place, what is your understanding of what qualifications are required to sign things off, this is what i have been told by an experianced electrician and lecturer but many people who apparantly work as sparks think differently.

I am currently year 2 candg 2330 after next month when passed i am equivelent partp and can sign off extensions to circuits and new circuits installed.
To sign off new boards and test on existing wiring i will need cand g 2391 and to do periodics and inspections, is that correct?
As everyone seems to have different ideas

[sparx]

Hi, Jeff,
Until quite recently there was no legal requirement at all to have ANY formal qualifications to start up as an electrician, either ind./comm/domm.
Amazing eh!
The first time any one asked for my 'papers' was when I applied for a JIB grade card.
What has changed is a number of Health & Safety initiatives

[sparx]

cont.(after dinner!)
which meant to get on most big sites reqd a C.S.C.S safety card, & if a sparks also needs Electrotechnical Certification Scheme endorsement to card, only way for these is proof of training, qualifications, & signed proof of work experience in variety of work ie conduit, pyro, tray, PVC, SWA, etc.
Then because of large # of domestic deaths & near misses due to dodgy practices by DIY/Other tradesmen , GOV. decided to introduce some controls in domestic work as we are just about the only major country where DIY electrics allowed, they decided as L.A. bldg control system already in place that would be the controlling body, as IEE regs only a standard & not enforcable in law, but bldg regs are Law.
Unfortunately L.A. pointed out that their insp. not qualified to do it!
So they appointed 4 or 5 scheme operators to oversee what is called Part P of bldg regs. They are currently BRE (eca), NICEIC, Elecsa (eca) & the one I am registered with NAPIT.
so in answer to another post, it does not matter what qualifications you have you must register with 1 of these schemes to be able to do and register domestic work, & they require NVQ lvl 3 equivalent to do so, plus various other requirements. c & G 2391 being one of them.

[sparx]

Cont (2)
The other way of doing thing is to notify LA BC b4 starting any domestic work on the 'controlled work list' ie adding any new circuit, adding or altering any wiring in kitchen/bathroom/outside, altering controls for C.Heating, doing any work on consumer units, etc,
the notification costs vary from one L.A. to another, locally between
£85- £125 per job, irrespective of work content as they send someone to look at wiring then finished job, & they don't test or issue certs. just a couple of ticks on a sheet of paper!
Jeff In answer to earlier ? I am M.D. of electrical/fire alarm co.
Sounds great eh?, wife is Co. secretary, so runs the show and I work with a couple of 'Lads' 61 & 53 respectively who know a thing or 2!!!
when I am not on here I am doing Quotes/invoices, ordering materials by FAX (which is what she thinks i'm doing now HiHi.)
I tried Lecturing at local tech. 2330 but fellout with college over their policy of 'Bums on seats' no matter how unsuitable for the courses, "ok as long as they can pay", Not good for anybody, so decided to try and assist as many as I can on here, for free!
regards & will not take up any more Giga bytes for now, SPARX

[Jeffmo]

Thanks sparks for the reply.....'s it is so good to know that somebody out there has the time and patience to help us mere mortals , i have to say that after all the work ive done and books i have read or tried to read i have learnt more from your replies to peoples problems than anything else , keep up the good work mate , . I am 44 now and just hope i havn't missed the boat , but i promise you that like my father before me i will always do a good job for a fair price , maybe not very quickly but the job will only need to be done once , hopefully that way i can guarantee repeat work and referalls . The old saying "its not wat you do but how you do it sticks in my mind " Cheers again Jeff.